Given the additional load that Towed Haul is imposing on the Toyota, some help to cool the transmission oil is required. Can Am's solution was an additional oil cooling kit, something like the one pictured above, installed behind the front grille. Whilst I haven't monitored the transmission oil temperature so far, we've certainly had no problems, even when driving in seriously stupid hot weather on Florida's Gulf Coast and back up through the Southern States. The people at our local Toyota dealers' also reported that the synthetic oil looked as good as new, and that was after about 10,000 miles towing.
Brakes are one of the areas that make the sceptics out there very concerned. I think they acknowledge that the Prodigy can get the trailer to stop, but they worry that if the trailer brakes should fail then the brakes on the car alone would not be able to bring three and a half additional tons to a halt, at least not safely. It's not an unfounded worry as the possibility of trailer brake failure is greater than failure of the car's brakes, but I have no intention of testing the situation, especially as it may never happen. I draw comfort from the thought, though, that the load being pulled by the tractor of a semi-truck (Tractor/Trailer, articulated lorry) often weighs more than three times the weight of that tractor and they manage quite well over many millions of miles of travel - like me and my tow vehicle, they work on the basis that if it had to, the tractor could stop its trailer at least once in reasonable safety, should the trailer's brakes fail.
Part of Can Am's set up was to provide a pair of McKesh clip on mirrors, fixed securely on the Toadmobile in the photograph above. Not only is it desirable to be able to see behind your trailer, it's also a legal necessity in most parts of North America. The Mckesh items may not look very sexy but they mount and demount in seconds and are pretty steady, even at speed. There are two issues that I have with them, though; firstly, that webbing can vibrate something rotten if it's windy and secondly when it's raining the mirrors get pearls of water on them quite quickly and become difficult use. The vibrating webbing has been mostly solved with the addition of a small piece of foam positioned near the lower door clip, a cheap and simple solution. The wet mirror can be solved by tying a piece of string to the mirror's supporting shaft; the string blows against the glass and breaks up the pearls of water, thus making the mirror usable again.
Finally, a modification that I made myself was the addition of a Scanguage II. This clever little device plugs into the car's OBDII port and displays, amongst many other things, sensor information including transmission oil temperature. To be fair I haven't managed to get that function working yet but it'll be great when I do! (After-note: It seems that the Toyota's sensor is a simple switch showing OK and Not OK. I'm going to have to get a new sensor and most probably a specific gauge for that pesky transmission oil temperature).
For my final discourse on this subject in the next blog entry, I will be relating some of my towing experiences, good and not so good. Stay tuned....
Thanks very much for this ongoing reflection on towing; most informative. We're on our way to becoming Airstreamers ourselves. First stop: Can Am next month. London is a long way from Victoria, but we want only the best service. Looking forward to your next article.
ReplyDeleteBarb and John
Good luck with the trip over this way; it's a long way to come but as the folks at Can Am will tell you, you're not the only ones. If you get a minute, perhaps you could detail the Airstream you're getting, your hitch set up and your tow vehicle? Don't forget, pictures when you collect your baby!
ReplyDeleteYes, Barb, please post pictures and your experiences. I'm very interested as well.
ReplyDeleteRich in Lexington
Interesting, but do you know your set up is illegal ?
ReplyDeleteYou can't tow more than the bulder recommandation.
Chris,
Thanks for your comment, Chris. I'm not sure which jurisdiction you're in but if you're in the United States or Canada then you need to check the specific laws for towing non-commercial RVs because I think you've been mis-informed. Exceeding specifications such as Gross Vehicle Weight, or Axle Weights, even tire ratings, can be a problem but there are no laws relating to manufacturers' tow rating. This is because the tow rating is not a finite figure capable of being proved or disproved, even by the manufacturers themselves. Even those easily defined ratings such as GVWR and GAWR are normally of little interest to the law enforcement agencies, unless the infraction is on a commercial vehicle.
ReplyDeleteIf you want to talk of illegalities, how many people routinely break the posted speed limit? That's both easily provable and significantly more dangerous, and yet millions speed with impunity every day on the roads of North America.
I'm living in Quebec, I don't have it in english :Les changements réglementaires ne concernent aucune
ReplyDeletement le tirage des remorques.
L’article 471 du Code de la sécurité routière (CSR)
prévoit déjà que nul ne peut conduire un
véhicule dont le chargement compromet la stabilité
ou la conduite du véhicule. À cet effet, il
est important que les utilisateurs de remorques res
pectent la capacité de remorquage de
leurs véhicules motorisés tel qu’elle est déterminé
e par le fabricant.
I don't know for all the Canada.
Chris
Thanks Chris. Surprisingly my French was sufficient to understand the general tone of the piece that you'd copied, although I did use Google Translate to confirm it.
ReplyDeleteRegulatory changes do not affect any
ment pulling trailers.
Section 471 of the Highway Safety Code (CSR)
already provides that no person may drive a
vehicle having a load affects the stability
or driving. To this end, it
is important that users of trailers res
pectent towing capacity of
their motor vehicles as it is determined
e by the manufacturer.
That's the first written code I've seen that refers to manufacturer's tow ratings, although I'm not sure if it means commercial or non-commercial vehicles, or both. I'll go and look at the CSR as I'm sure that there is a version in English.
I've looked at other Provincial driving codes and whilst there is reference made to towing, weights and ratings, none of them refer to manufacturers' actual tow ratings.
Thanks again, I'll get back to you!
Chris, what document did your piece come from? Article 471 of the CSR, which I take to be the legal document, makes no mention of manufacturers' tow ratings.
ReplyDeleteFrom the Quebec CSR (Highway Safety Code)
471. No person may drive or allow to be driven a road vehicle carrying a load
(1) that is not solidly secured or adequately covered so as to prevent any part of the load from moving or detaching itself from the vehicle;
(2) that is placed, secured or covered in a manner that reduces the driver's field of vision or blocks the lights of the vehicle;
(3) that is placed, secured or covered in a manner that interferes with the stability or handling of the vehicle;
(4) that is not placed, secured or covered in accordance with the regulation respecting the securing of loads.
Subparagraphs 1, 2 and 3 apply on highways under the administration of or maintained by the Ministère des Ressources naturelles et de la Faune.
1986, c. 91, s. 471; 1990, c. 83, s. 171; 1998, c. 40, s. 103; 2003, c. 8, s. 6; 2006, c. 3, s. 35.
http://www2.publicationsduquebec.gouv.qc.ca/dynamicSearch/telecharge.php?type=2&file=/C_24_2/C24_2_A.html
Is the document that you've copied from some additional advice? Is it official?
Sorry, I don't find it in english,
ReplyDeleteSECTION III
LES MAXIMA DE CHARGE PAR ESSIEU
§1. Dispositions générales
13. La charge par essieu maximale est la moindre de l'une ou l'autre des limites de charge suivantes:
1° la somme de la limite de charge de chacun des pneus d'un essieu ou d'un ensemble d'essieux, telle qu'elle est indiquée sur le flanc du pneu par son fabricant, sous réserve, pour l'essieu ou l'ensemble d'essieux appartenant aux catégories B.10 à B.57, que la limite de charge d'un pneu, qui n'est pas à bande large et qui est monté sur une roue simple, ne peut pas dépasser 10 kg par mm de largeur nominale de sa bande de roulement;
2° 5 500 kg pour un essieu qui appartient à la catégorie B.1, 11 000 kg pour un ensemble d'essieux qui appartient à la catégorie B.2 ou B.3 ou une charge limite supérieure qui est indiquée par le fabricant du véhicule routier ou la capacité de charge qui est indiquée par celui qui a apporté des modifications au véhicule avec l'approbation de la Société de l'assurance automobile du Québec conformément au paragraphe 1 de l'article 214 du Code de la sécurité routière (chapitre C-24.2);
3° la limite de charge prévue à l'article 14 qui, le cas échéant, est:
a) majorée de 20% sur un chemin public qui appartient à la classe spéciale;
b) diminuée de 1 000 kg par essieu muni de seulement 2 pneus qui ne sont pas à bande large pour les essieux des catégories B.10 à B.57;
c) diminuée de 1 000 kg pour les catégories B.31, B.32 et B.33 lorsque la catégorie d'essieux est formée d'un groupe d'essieux équivalent à l'essieu triple.
Aux fins du paragraphe 1 du premier alinéa, dans le cas de roues doubles, la limite de charge du pneu intérieur est, sauf preuve contraire, la même que celle du pneu extérieur.
Les dispositions du paragraphe 1 du premier alinéa concernant la limite de charge d'un pneu de 10 kg par mm de largeur nominale de sa bande de roulement ainsi que celles du sous-paragraphe b du paragraphe 3 de cet alinéa ne s'appliquent pas à l'essieu autovireur qui appartient à la catégorie B.44, lorsque la largeur des pneus des roues simples est d'au moins 365 mm, ou à la catégorie B.45, lorsque la largeur des pneus des roues simples est d'au moins 385 mm.
D. 1299-91, a. 13; D. 1412-98, a. 11; D. 24-2013, a. 9.
http://www2.publicationsduquebec.gouv.qc.ca/dynamicSearch/telecharge.php?type=2&file=%2F%2FC_24_2%2FC24_2R31.htm
Chris.
Chris, thanks for all your work on this. The piece that you've copied here refers to axle weights, which are not the same as tow ratings as I'm sure you know. The piece you copied in earlier:
ReplyDeleteÀ cet effet, il
est important que les utilisateurs de remorques res
pectent la capacité de remorquage de
leurs véhicules motorisés tel qu’elle est déterminé
e par le fabricant.
is the only thing that refers to manufacturers' ratings and I'm not sure that comes from the legal document.
In terms of axle weight, when hitched to the Airstream my Sienna doesn't exceed the ratings so I'm legal in that sense.
Looking at other Provincial RV regulations, Quebec doesn't differ that much and no mention is made of the manufacturer's tow ratings elsewhere.
I do have an interest in this at the moment because we're hoping to be in Quebec City in August, camping on the Isle D'Orleans.
Hello, I have pick up since 30 years and trailers for work,in my comprehension it is not legal to excede the GCWR, I don't find the exact law article. I found and this:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.vrmartinlajeunesse.com/images/stories/Guide_remorquage_2011.pdf See page 6 and 7.
everything I founded said we have to respect manufacturer's rating for our and other security, but is it the law ? anyway your set up look good and level, I'll be surprise if your're being check by police.
Chris
Hello
ReplyDeleteIf you like boundocking I know a farmer on the island where you can park for 10$ with out service but very nice view on the St-laurent.
Chris,
I'm not aware of any "law" that enforces the arbitrary nature of manufacturer designated tow ratings. GVWR? For sure. One cannot surpass the GVWR but the GVWR is trailer and vehicle contents *combined*, unless I am grossly misinformed. The tow rating is not specific, is not accurate, and likely has as much marketing influence as anything else.
ReplyDeleteThere are many examples and you need only look. The most informative are the differences in two rating on the same vehicle in the US, and the UK. They are sometimes substantially different. Why? Because the towing speed limit is lower in the UK so the vehicle can now tow more? Or because trailer brakes are more common in the UK on lighter trailers?
We in the US are as perfectly capable of not towing at 70mph, and getting brake trailers, as anywhere else. But what the demonstrates is that the tow rating is arbitrary; and hence, unenforcable.
Another good example is the Sienna vs the Highlander; manufacturer tow rating is 3500 and 5000. What are the vehicle differences? Very few. Perhaps a little on brakes, but then the Highlander is shorter.
An even better example of tow ratings are the 2door Wrangler to a 4door Wrangler (it is 2000 vs 3500), so a shorter wheelbase impacts what the manufacturer suggests - even though the vehicles are utterly identical except for length.
But I know the best tow rating example! In Canada and UK, the Jetta TDI has a decent tow rating! Do you know what the Jetta diesel tow rating in the US is? 0. No towing recommended.
How can the manufacturer screw it up that badly? Because marketing and the attorneys always get involved down here in our very sew-happy society.
One thought that arises among these comparisons is the possibility that the manufacturer would like you to buy a more profitable CUV/SUV to tow with, rather than the van; which has the same engine and transmission, similar weight, and a very solid GVWR, an extremely strong unibody as shown by its crash ratings, and a wheelbase to make a pickup proud.
It's always important to distinguish between the GVWR, the axle ratings, the tire load ratings, and whatever that number whomever came up with that is the tow rating.
Towing laws are not particularly tight, at least not for privately owned vehicles and trailers, throughout North America. The manufacturer's tow rating is meaningless in an enforcement sense as it has no basis reality; to exceed it is to exceed what? No engineering methodology was used to derive it and very little testing will have been done to prove it. Laws do say that you should operate within the manufacturer's specification but apply even a minor modification such as a smaller tire, and you've blown the manufacturer's specifications right out of the water. For me it comes down to Axle and Tire ratings, both a simple expression of weight that is measurable, both finite, both derived using engineering principles and both properly tested. Exceed those ratings and you might be asking for trouble. As a rule I try not to exceed the GVWR anyway because that's a fairly easy, and finite, figure to work to. In terms of legality, you should abide by the GVWR or you can be deemed to be "overweight". That said, unless your tow vehcile is grossly and obviously overweight then the likelihood of enforcement is minimal anyway.
DeleteJust a thought for the folks who talk about the legality of towing over rating (not in response to this blog, I've had good discussions with Chris about laws in Quebec), how often do you exceed the speed limit, towing or not? I'll wager many do all the time, and yet there's no outcry about exceeding that easily measurable and enforceable law.
Steve, we're going full time in August!! Picking up our Mobile Manor at Can Am - a 30' International Signature that we'll be towing with a Volvo XC 70. Can Am is hitching us up with a Hensley hitch and any modifications that are needed. Can't wait to get going. I'm hoping we'll have our own blog - though ours will hardly be as informative as yours as neither of us have the technical bent that you obviously have! We have, however, put ourselves into Andy and JW's hands and trust them implicitly, hence the reason we've gone all the way from Victoria to London, Ont., for our new home.
ReplyDeleteCar dealerships around the United States are hoping the Car Allowance Rebate System (CARS) or Cash for cars Program introduced by the government will spur on new business growth and increase sales for the auto industry. The program really satisfies two basic needs: the stimulation of our economy and the preservation of our environment through vehicle fuel efficiency.
ReplyDelete